yuletide | beta reader spreadsheet: does it get used?

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beta readers

beta reader spreadsheet: does it get used?

Hi all,

I usually do a Google form + spreadsheet so that people can offer to be beta readers (last year's).

I would love it if you would let me know if you actually use this to look for betas? I'm putting a poll at the end of this entry for DW users, to make it easier to respond, but comments are very welcome as well.

(It's not that much work for me, thanks to the joy of forms, but I hate to think of people doing signups for no reason?)

Edit: if people have contacted you because they saw you on the spreadsheet, feel free to count that as a "yes"; sorry I forgot to include that in the poll!

Edit^2: it does seem that people use it, yay! I shall continue it this year, then. Other feedback also welcomed, thanks so much.

Poll #24630

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 93

View Respondents

Have you actually used the spreadsheet to look for a beta reader?

View Answers

Yes, it's great.
40 (43.0%)

I didn't know it existed, but I will if it exists in the future.
36 (38.7%)

I don't (or wouldn't) find it useful.
17 (18.3%)

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I do use the spreadsheet to find people who know my small fandoms and are interested in helping me proofread!

I find the other tabs (general spag, topical knowledge) less useful, personally. Like, if there are a dozen people who can all volunteer some proofreading without fandom knowledge, should I pick randomly? And when it comes to other topics there's not always a consistent way to sort/filter/decide what kind of "expertise" I personally need to have about something before it's worthwhile to offer and not duplicate other people's specialties. (I appreciate that this may just be me, though.)

that makes sense, thanks!

I put 1 although actually it's the other way, ppl have used it to reach out to me

oh that's a design flaw on my part, thanks!

I can't vote as I don't have DW but I have used it on multiple occasions, I definitely find it useful.

thank you!

I like it as a self-service beta finding resource, and it's where I'll usually start looking. If the fandom I'm looking for isn't listed (or none of the listed betas can help), that's when I'll ask a hippo or look for a beta through other means.

thanks for the information!

I don't use it/find it useful because I find the spreadsheet difficult to navigate and sluggish to search. If it were exported/presented in a different way (possibly using advanced pivot tables?), I would be able to use it.

I'd like to see types of editing standardized and defined by the form-keeper, not the betas.

Here's an option I like - adapted from this blog post ( https://blog.reedsy.com/types-of-editing/ )

Developmental editing - detailed feedback on “big-picture” issues. They’ll refine your ideas, shape your narrative, and help you fix any major plot or character inconsistencies. They produce an editorial report (general critique of everything your developmental editor thinks you should change, along with commentary on what’s functioning well and should stay in your work) and an annotated manuscript (general critique of everything your developmental editor thinks you should change, along with commentary on what’s functioning well and should stay in your work). Will tell you if you need to write the other 5,000 words you elided. Will tell you if you're skirting DNWs, or missing big parts of a request. "The requested character is in about 5% of the fic which is actually about your OCs. This is a good story but not a good yuletide gift story."

Editorial assessment - Similar to an editorial report, defined above, but with less detail. It should give concrete ideas about how to construct the story. It won’t have the nuance of a full developmental edit. Will tell you if you need to write the other 5,000 words you elided. Will tell you if you're skirting DNWs, or missing big parts of a request. "The requested character is in about 5% of the fic which is actually about your OCs. This is a good story but not a good yuletide gift story."

Structural editing - Helps you keep track of twists, cliffhangers, pacing, scene splits and length, advise on chapterin, point of view, and help keep track of who knows what and who knows who knows what. Will tell you if you need to write the other 5,000 words you elided. Will tell you if you're skirting DNWs, or missing big parts of a request. "The requested character is in about 5% of the fic which is actually about your OCs. This is a good story but not a good yuletide gift story."

Copy editing - Spelling/Grammar/Capitalization/Usage & Repetition, Dialogue tags, Usage of numbers & numerals, POV/tense-wrangling, descriptive and continuity inconsistencies (character descriptions, locations, blocking/choreography, etc.) May tell you you need to write the other 5,000 words you elided.

Line editing - Specific focus on the content and flow of the prose; technically this is a type of copy editing. May tell you you need to write the other 5,000 words you elided.

Proofreading - clearly marking errors and inconsistencies in: spelling, style, layout, typography, confusing or awkward wording, or word breaks. May tell you to write the other 5,000 words you elided.

Canon-specific editing - Like copy editing or structural editing, but only as relates to the source canon. Helps with things like, "Actually, Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker could not have been in the same place at this point in canon." And "You listened to the audio version of the and I have the paper copy and will help you with name spellings."

Fact checking (expand below) - An expert in the topic of your story reads for factual correctness and consistency. Good for when you have a lot of niche information in your book, and especially if it’s a topic you’ve never written on before. ("Temporal relativity doesn't work that way." /
"The nylons you have Jack peel Phryne out of weren't invented until 1935. It's currently 1928 in your fic.")

Culture-picking (expand below) - like copy editing, but for a specific cultural setting. See "Britpicking".; "Actually the Google Arabic endearment you had Nicky use with Joe is a horrible insult in Joe's dialect please do something about this. The endearment you were looking for is probably [this], or you could play it for comedy and then segue into the porn-with-linguistics your recip asked for." ; "They're in Georgia, USA, sprite is a type of coke. I don't make the rules." Some overlap with sensitivity reading.

Sensitivity reading (expand below) - for when you're writing a character who is part of an oppressed group that may or may not be your own. Point out where you stumble over nuances from "Actually, that word you used is a racial slur;" "You've stumbled into a stereotype you may not have known existed," "In this coffeeshop AU, nobody but Finn calls Rey "Miss Rey," which has some racist connotations X , Y, and Z. Here are some better ways to emphasize his kindness." Some overlap with culture-picking.

Indexing - If you do decide to include an index — a list of references in your book and the pages on which one can find them — you may want to create it yourself and have another editor double-check it. Useful if you're writing a "documentation" style fic like The Illuminae Files or Written by the Victors.

Formatting - looks over and fixes your HTML (particularly paragraph breaks, which AO3 is notorious about borking), ideally making it more accessible (replacing italic (i) tags with emphasis (em) tags, making sure your tags are all closed and correctly nested, etc. May need co-author access to your fic in AO3.

One additional note - maybe also a form option for,

"Please acknowledge me as a beta even if you don't integrate my suggestions"
"Please do not acknowledge me as a beta if you don't integrate my suggestions."

?

Just commenting to thumbs-up the option of "please acknowledge/do not acknowledge me as a beta"! I was actually thinking I wouldn't beta this year, because I did it last year and realized afterward that I really didn't like people crediting me for it, but I also feel weird about the idea of asking them to take my name off. I'd feel less weird if it were part of what I'd filled out when I signed up to beta.

...Just realized I misread and didn't see that this part was only about if the author *doesn't* integrate suggestions. I actually would not want to be credited either way. It's not really a big deal, but just to clarify what I was thinking when I commented.

I think it would be easy enough/a good third option to include:

"Please acknowledge me as a beta even if you don't integrate my suggestions"
"Please do not acknowledge me as a beta."
"Please do not acknowledge me as a beta if you don't integrate my suggestions."

This is a very interesting breakdown of the types of professional editing, but with respect, I think it's too exhaustive for the kind of unpaid, often short-turnaround work a Yuletide beta does. The difference between a structural edit and an editorial assessment is meaningful when you are determining which one to pay someone to do for a book manuscript, but less so when your fic is due in a week and you need someone to assess its readiness.

I'd have to defer to OP on the practicality of having the spreadsheet maintainer define the edit types.

Seconding this comment.

I don't know how to use pivot tables, alas! Is this something you'd be interested in looking into using last year's spreadsheet data? I can usually cargo-cult my way into updating something once I have an example set up.

The types of editing are very interesting, thanks! That many gradations are probably more than are needed for most Yuletide purposes, but the question of sensitivity reading is one I need to give serious thought to.

As for the acknowledging as a beta reader, I've always had that conversation with writers I've beta'ed for, and I'm reluctant to overload the spreadsheet--which, as you say, is definitely unwieldy though I do my best! But I will mull it over.

Hi - thank you for running this!

I use it. In the last few years I haven't had many people contact me on it, but it's usually two-three per year. On the other hand, that volume suits me, since I don't have to say no very much. I check it, but I haven't often contacted people on it because of a lack of people offering my fandoms.

I wonder if the timestamp needs to be visible to users looking for a beta? I'm not sure it's relevant and it takes up some screen space.

Regarding expertise, I do use the fandom to look for expertise of people who might be able to brainstorm with me. Hasn't worked out so far but I hope. I wonder if that might be more useful if there were specific categories - ie, language, location, academic discipline, technical knowledge, other practical knowledge, job experience, etc? But I may be trying to improve something that is not broken.

Another thing that may niggle only me: the wording of "How far in advance to contact" / "A couple days before the deadline." or "Two weeks or more before the deadline." bugs me a little because read like that it implies DON'T contact the person UNTIL then, rather than CONTACT THE PERSON AT ANY TIME, UNTIL. Maybe that could be tweaked? I think it's a useful distinction, though.

It would be interesting to see how many people use the sheet for just a SPaG beta.

(Would be willing to help with data entry this year! Same username, gmail)

Edited (adding offer) 2020-09-24 08:47 (UTC)

Sorry I forgot to respond to this! These are very useful comments, thank you.

I've found this exceptionally useful for areas of expertise when I realize I'll need someone who knows a city, a language, a sensitivity beta for a religion I'm not a member of, etc.

I think I missed the poll, but I came here to sign up for this year and usually get 2-3 people asking me, and 1-2 during the year as well.

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